One of my favorite historical/fantasy miniatures systems has always been Knights and Magick from long defunct Heritage USA. There was just something about the rules which were easy enough yet had extra flavor to the make battles unique and interesting. Add to this a pretty robust campaign system – which wasn’t impossible to implement – and I can certainly say Elliott, our high school friends, and I had one hell of a time playing! Unfortunately, Heritage went the way of the dodo around twenty five years ago and the Knights and Magick rules hadn’t seen print since they originally came out in 1980. Thankfully you can still get many of the old Heritage miniatures through Classic Miniatures and our pals at Reaper but you just couldn’t score a copy of K&M without heading to the secondary market and paying top dollar. For the most part you’d be getting a bit of a dog eared copy and when I would see the game available online nearly always the indication was the set wasn’t complete; for some reason most people had lost the fifth volume to the rules, a half sized book for magic.
Now I’m happy to say you can get your hands on the complete classic rule set right here at TGG! Although we’re talking about the classic edition of K&M, the digital rule book PDFs are bookmarked and completely searchable, making them perfect to bring along on the go with a laptop or tablet. Of course, you can put them on your phone too but I think you’d have some issues with the screen size.
The rules are available as a 197 page tome in the following editions:
Softcover – 8.5″ x 11″, perfect binding, white interior paper (60# weight), black and white interior ink, white exterior paper (100# weight), full-color exterior ink for $26.95
Coil Bound – 8.5″ x 11″, coil binding, white interior paper (60# weight), black and white interior ink, white exterior paper (100# weight), full-color exterior ink for $34.95
Hardcover – 8.25″ x 10.75″, casewrap-hardcover binding, white interior paper (50# weight), black and white interior ink, white exterior paper (100# weight), full-color exterior ink for $42.95
Founder/Editor-in-chief of The Gaming Gang website and host of The Gaming Gang Dispatch and other TGG media, Jeff tackles any and all sorts of games but has a special fondness for strategy, conflict sims, and roleplaying games. Plus, he's certainly never at a loss for an opinion...
Wow, a lot of stuff in the download. Skimmed thru the pdf; the fact that the game can be used for individual combat(jousting!) all the up to castle sieges is very cool. Also, I think the price is worth it, just for the historical content. Looking forward to the 21st century version…The beginning of the end of Games Workshop hegemony???:)
Oh, I don’t think GW has anything to worry about since we have no interest in producing minis. 😉 There’s a whole lot to the game and there’s plenty of appeal for both historical and fantasy gamers in one package!
Just checked out the PDFs. I’m really enjoying everything I’m learning about this one. Never heard of this game growing up but I’m definitely looking forward to your revamped edition!
Thanks to Floyd Canada for catching Volume I : Game Rules And Systems is missing page 31. and Volume III : Adventures, Scenarios, And Campaigns is missing page 19. Grrrr!!! I know exactly what pages they are too as they took more work than most of the rest to clean up. The good news is the files are available and all I have to do is add the pages to each of the books and then reformat for search and bookmarks.
The bad news is I’m on the road and won’t be back home, where the files are, until this weekend at the earliest and the middle of next week at the latest. What I’ll do as soon as I get home is fix the books and email the links to the new books for everyone who’s made a purchase to get the replacements.
How does one search for the old figs on Reaper’s site? Will the figs from Merlin be included, or will that be a different expansion? I have Merlin, but have not played it.
I can’t tell you exactly what figs in the Reaper line were originally Heritage but I was informed they picked up quite a few of the molds. I can’t say if they’re in production or not but when I have a chance to get in front of a computer I’ll reach out to Ed Pugh to see what can be learned.
I’m glad everyone is enjoying this release of Knights and Magic. I couldn’t believe that Jeff was able to get such a nice copy put together. Man, what great memories this conjures up. It makes me want to play all over again after all these years. He has such great ideas for the 2nd edition too, which will be even better when it comes together. I had heard that is has been nearly impossible to get a copy of the spell book, and yet Jeff came up with it. Great job my friend. You of course realize we are going to have to put some games together when you head into town, although I’m not sure how, lol.
Greetings. I hope to obtain a copy of these rules, and utilize them with my Schleich, Papo, Safari, and Bullyland Knights; in 90mm scale.
Glad to see the game returning.
I’m actually working on three projects at the moment and all of them are creeping along at the moment. I should have some previews of what the new rules will look like sometime in late Feb/early March.
Well, the rules revisions are pretty much complete. Now I just have to look at how to present them graphically. I’d love to include plenty of artwork and photography while putting together something that rivals the big name miniatures rule sets – at least in presentation. Looks like I’ll probably have to go the crowdfunding route to pull that off though.
I just found my copy from way back when. For many years it was a favorite fantasy miniatures game, especially in the face of the munchkin power gaming one sees in Warhammer Fantasy. (Warhammer Fantasy is actually a very good game which has been ruined by munchkin power gamers.) In fact, I played it without magic (so my friends nicknamed it as “Knights and No Magick,” which had the effect of keeping the munchkin power gamers away.
The combat system was the most interesting part of the rules. However, I would prefer to see individual melees resolved by a single die rather than the goofy D6+D10 combination used by the game. A single die would result in much faster melee resolutions.
I also believe the system of matching weapons against armor was brilliant. However, in the original version, it was much too generic. Certain weapons are more effective against certain types of armor. In fact, some weapons were designed specifically to defeat certain armor. For example, bastard swords were developed to penetrate between the plates of plate armor. Personally, I would like to see the combat table expanded so that specific weapons are shown against specific armor.
But for a set of rules published over 30 years ago, those are minor quibbles.
The rules revamp is finished but we need artwork and photography in order to look toward releasing a print on demand or trying to kickstart the project.
I still have my original copy, minus the box and I have a lot of the original knights that came with the boxed set. I have been following your progress and hope to see your updated version soon. Did you happen to convert the combat die rolls to using just one die, or have you kept the original?
The cool thing is the Elan Merch mini’s are part of his catalog. So if you’ve been jonesin for some Baksi LotR mini’s you can now purchase them. I was not payed to say that 😉
Even some number of years since you announced an update is coming. What’s the current estimate? I’m a career publisher by trade. Let me know if I can help in some way.
Hi Danny. Sorry you’re having Lulu issues. I’ve reached out to Lulu about his but their customer service is complete garbage. I was going to move this to Wargame Vault but can’t even get anyone at Lulu to even respond to my own log in issues. I know people were still able to order the books a month ago.
Thanks for replying. I still cannot order one and I’ve tried on my MacBook, PC and even my iPhone. I know that they had a sale going on but I’ve been able to order other things without a problem. Figures I find something worthwhile and Lulu lets me down.
Several years ago, I made a combat table using a 20 sided die. I thought this would allow more fine tuning than a ten sided die. I also made some modifications, mostly making cavalry more effective, basically giving them a bonus in combat.
Sounds great but K&M combat chart isn’t based on d10 it’s based on d15 which is generated by adding a d9 to a d10. While d20 produces a spread 1 through 20 and the ‘d15’ only produces 1 through 15 because this is done using two dice you are left with a probability curve making the nine results in the middle (4 through 12) more likely to occur than those at the extreme ends. It was designer Arnold Hendrick’s contention this was preferable to a greater spread as it simulated likely outcomes occurring with greater probability. Also the interplay between the two dice is utilized in smaller combats to determine weapon breakage. I’m not saying you are wrong about d20 vs. d10 spread, certainly, but K&M doesn’t use d10 by itself for combat.
As for the main combat matrix…I don’t want to write another essay so let me just say I believe it is loaded with errors. I mean, do you seriously believe the fl (flail or whip) is the ultimate melee weapon? Is a cb (crossbow) really no better than a short bow about half the time? A “revised” version addendum of the matrix was included in (probably) later boxes but this mainly only addressed the pk (pike) listing, adding little else.
Wow, a lot of stuff in the download. Skimmed thru the pdf; the fact that the game can be used for individual combat(jousting!) all the up to castle sieges is very cool. Also, I think the price is worth it, just for the historical content. Looking forward to the 21st century version…The beginning of the end of Games Workshop hegemony???:)
Oh, I don’t think GW has anything to worry about since we have no interest in producing minis. 😉 There’s a whole lot to the game and there’s plenty of appeal for both historical and fantasy gamers in one package!
Any thoughts of a collaboration with Max Carr? He did a lot (most?) of the original Knights and Magick miniatures.
I’d say that would be a possibility, as I’ll get in contact with Max.
Just checked out the PDFs. I’m really enjoying everything I’m learning about this one. Never heard of this game growing up but I’m definitely looking forward to your revamped edition!
Thanks to Floyd Canada for catching Volume I : Game Rules And Systems is missing page 31. and Volume III : Adventures, Scenarios, And Campaigns is missing page 19. Grrrr!!! I know exactly what pages they are too as they took more work than most of the rest to clean up. The good news is the files are available and all I have to do is add the pages to each of the books and then reformat for search and bookmarks.
The bad news is I’m on the road and won’t be back home, where the files are, until this weekend at the earliest and the middle of next week at the latest. What I’ll do as soon as I get home is fix the books and email the links to the new books for everyone who’s made a purchase to get the replacements.
I can’t believe I missed those two pages!!!!
How does one search for the old figs on Reaper’s site? Will the figs from Merlin be included, or will that be a different expansion? I have Merlin, but have not played it.
I can’t tell you exactly what figs in the Reaper line were originally Heritage but I was informed they picked up quite a few of the molds. I can’t say if they’re in production or not but when I have a chance to get in front of a computer I’ll reach out to Ed Pugh to see what can be learned.
I’m glad everyone is enjoying this release of Knights and Magic. I couldn’t believe that Jeff was able to get such a nice copy put together. Man, what great memories this conjures up. It makes me want to play all over again after all these years. He has such great ideas for the 2nd edition too, which will be even better when it comes together. I had heard that is has been nearly impossible to get a copy of the spell book, and yet Jeff came up with it. Great job my friend. You of course realize we are going to have to put some games together when you head into town, although I’m not sure how, lol.
um…forgot the K. Knights and Magick. Amazingly enough, backwards it is Kcigam dna Sthgink, which means absolutely nothing.
Ok, the two books have been corrected so the five volumes are complete!
Greetings. I hope to obtain a copy of these rules, and utilize them with my Schleich, Papo, Safari, and Bullyland Knights; in 90mm scale.
Glad to see the game returning.
Scanning in my old set too. Almost got it done. Good to see other folks are trying to preserve this as well.
So I haven’t seen anything here for a long while.
Any news about the updated rule set ?
Any news at all ?
I’m actually working on three projects at the moment and all of them are creeping along at the moment. I should have some previews of what the new rules will look like sometime in late Feb/early March.
Any updates?
any updates?
Well, the rules revisions are pretty much complete. Now I just have to look at how to present them graphically. I’d love to include plenty of artwork and photography while putting together something that rivals the big name miniatures rule sets – at least in presentation. Looks like I’ll probably have to go the crowdfunding route to pull that off though.
I just found my copy from way back when. For many years it was a favorite fantasy miniatures game, especially in the face of the munchkin power gaming one sees in Warhammer Fantasy. (Warhammer Fantasy is actually a very good game which has been ruined by munchkin power gamers.) In fact, I played it without magic (so my friends nicknamed it as “Knights and No Magick,” which had the effect of keeping the munchkin power gamers away.
The combat system was the most interesting part of the rules. However, I would prefer to see individual melees resolved by a single die rather than the goofy D6+D10 combination used by the game. A single die would result in much faster melee resolutions.
I also believe the system of matching weapons against armor was brilliant. However, in the original version, it was much too generic. Certain weapons are more effective against certain types of armor. In fact, some weapons were designed specifically to defeat certain armor. For example, bastard swords were developed to penetrate between the plates of plate armor. Personally, I would like to see the combat table expanded so that specific weapons are shown against specific armor.
But for a set of rules published over 30 years ago, those are minor quibbles.
Any updates?
K&M was a favorite back in high school until I lent it to a friend who managed to lose it.
Been seeking a reprint for years.
The rules revamp is finished but we need artwork and photography in order to look toward releasing a print on demand or trying to kickstart the project.
I still have my original copy, minus the box and I have a lot of the original knights that came with the boxed set. I have been following your progress and hope to see your updated version soon. Did you happen to convert the combat die rolls to using just one die, or have you kept the original?
Thanks,
Matthew
Matthew,
We’re aiming at a single D10 to resolve the attack roll, with a few modifiers toward a target number.
I know I’m a little late to the party but Heritage USA minis are still being cast. You can find them at:
http://classicminiatures.net/
If you want to look at Heritage USA’s catalog you can find it here:
http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Heritage
Have a good one 🙂
I’ve purchased from Classic Miniatures before. I would do so again. He’s a good seller and loves Heritage USA.
Thanks for the heads up Jonathan. I thought Reaper still had the Heritage molds but I guess that’s no longer the case.
The cool thing is the Elan Merch mini’s are part of his catalog. So if you’ve been jonesin for some Baksi LotR mini’s you can now purchase them. I was not payed to say that 😉
Even some number of years since you announced an update is coming. What’s the current estimate? I’m a career publisher by trade. Let me know if I can help in some way.
Joe
Hi. I’ve tried purchasing a copy on Lulu but it won’t let me add it to the cart. Have anyone else had this problem? Any fixes?
Hi Danny. Sorry you’re having Lulu issues. I’ve reached out to Lulu about his but their customer service is complete garbage. I was going to move this to Wargame Vault but can’t even get anyone at Lulu to even respond to my own log in issues. I know people were still able to order the books a month ago.
Thanks for replying. I still cannot order one and I’ve tried on my MacBook, PC and even my iPhone. I know that they had a sale going on but I’ve been able to order other things without a problem. Figures I find something worthwhile and Lulu lets me down.
I’ve gone and checked both the soft cover and the hardcover and I can add them to a cart in Chrome but not in Firefox…
Several years ago, I made a combat table using a 20 sided die. I thought this would allow more fine tuning than a ten sided die. I also made some modifications, mostly making cavalry more effective, basically giving them a bonus in combat.
Sounds great but K&M combat chart isn’t based on d10 it’s based on d15 which is generated by adding a d9 to a d10. While d20 produces a spread 1 through 20 and the ‘d15’ only produces 1 through 15 because this is done using two dice you are left with a probability curve making the nine results in the middle (4 through 12) more likely to occur than those at the extreme ends. It was designer Arnold Hendrick’s contention this was preferable to a greater spread as it simulated likely outcomes occurring with greater probability. Also the interplay between the two dice is utilized in smaller combats to determine weapon breakage. I’m not saying you are wrong about d20 vs. d10 spread, certainly, but K&M doesn’t use d10 by itself for combat.
As for the main combat matrix…I don’t want to write another essay so let me just say I believe it is loaded with errors. I mean, do you seriously believe the fl (flail or whip) is the ultimate melee weapon? Is a cb (crossbow) really no better than a short bow about half the time? A “revised” version addendum of the matrix was included in (probably) later boxes but this mainly only addressed the pk (pike) listing, adding little else.